Camper Trailers

Submitted: Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 16:13
ThreadID: 40519 Views:7300 Replies:7 FollowUps:16
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Hi,

I'm in the process (like many before me) of working out which hard floor CT might be suitable for me and the "cook's assistant".

Am a bit limited by tow-ball weight (85Kg), so have been tossing up between a couple of true off-roaders and maybe some "soft-roaders". Have a Grand Vitara so not looking at heavy duty off-road (at least over the next 3+ years). Do want to head around the likes of Oodnadatta / Birdsville track, National Parks etc etc. Have made a couple of small trips around and have "been bitten".

Like the look of Kimberley Kampers, but think the towball weight is an issue right across the range.

Odyssey XR is probably also the only option from AORC.

At the moment I am giving Pioneer serious consideration and I am going to try to get a look at a Sundowner with a rough road kit. They seem have lots of room and also have a winch to help when closing the roof. Also like the idea of the inside upright 'fridge, except it means you can't get to it until set up for the night. Their Prospector and Argyle are also on the short-list.

Similarly am considering CUB Supamatic/Spacematic Off Road.

Have also seen the Modcon Campers site and am wondering if anyone has experience / knowledge of them.

Any suggestions from the many experienced folks here would be greatly appreciated.
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Reply By: tdv - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 17:07

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 17:07
Don't forget Aussie Swag. I have a 2001 model and the towball weight is in that range.

Also if you speak to most manufacturers they can make compromises to achieve what you are after.

Cheers

Tez
AnswerID: 211387

Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:23

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:23
Thanks Tez,

Had some Aussie Swag info mailed out but will probably have to wait for the Sydney Supershow to have a good look as I'm on NSW Sth Coast, fair way from the factory.

There was one really nice second hand unit at a KK dealer I went to , but when he put the scales on it was 100Kg drawbar :(

Cheers,
Alastair
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FollowupID: 471556

Reply By: Member - greg S (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 19:27

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 19:27
Hi ADP2006,

First thing you might want to consider is your towing capacity. As this will determine what you can and can't tow.

When looking for a camper, ask them if the ball weight is when it is empty or fully loaded, as this makes a huge difference.
Most manufacturer's will state a ball weight of around 10%-15%.
With most of the camper's you have looked at they would weigh in at around 850kg-950kg empty. (85kg-95kg min ball weight).

One thing to be very careful of is the "optioning" up of your camper as this will just add more weight (and more ball weight). {I know this as we have a Cape York Trailer's, Deluxe Explorer(hard floor) and they said around 920kg empty. This was before we added a second battery & upgraded the wiring, 2nd gas ring + bottle+ other bits and pieces}.

If you want some more info then the campertrailer.org website has some great information and tips on what to look for when buying a camper.

If you want to ask me anything about our's then you can email me on grvlsobczak@aapt.net.au

Cheer's Greg
AnswerID: 211407

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 20:13

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 20:13
I don't think a manufacturer could give you a loaded ball weight, it would all depend on how it was loaded.
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Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:53

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:53
Hi Greg,

Towing capacity is 1850Kg (braked), so that shouldn't be a problem, just the ridiculously low ball weight.

Have emailed Cape York for some information as their web site doesn't seem to have too much info on ball weights etc.

Thanks again for your comments, always helps to have various bits of input.

Cheers,
Alastair
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FollowupID: 471559

Reply By: Harry - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 20:10

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 20:10
G'day,
Sounds like you do your homework and it can take a while as you obviously know.
I went through the same process over an 18mnth period and the weight was an issue with me, so if it was over 750kg, then I put it to one side.
Went to shows and gathered as much info as I could and you won't get all the good ideas on the one you finally go with so you have to compromise a little.
finished up going to the Kimberly dealer after spotting a relatively light model on the net and walked out not totally convinced that one would do. It had issues with silly annexe designs, but seemed pretty good, and the options brought the price from $24,500 to $29,500 so we weren't really convinced that it was good value for the dollars. Great camper but.....
We were on our way over to probably buy on the Sat. coming and I received an Email from CUB for their opening and as it was on the way, we decided it would be worthwhile calling in to see what they had.
5hrs we were there and they had a dam good set of campers to offer and we chose the Supermatic Regal Offroad (hardfloor) and the options didn't tally over the 1000.
We paid just on $21,000 and it had more to offer than the Kimberly. Like upright
60 L fridge and more water 80 L tank.etc , etc.
It weighs in at 700kg and it has matching wheels for the truck and I had them install a reversing camera while they built it. We could have saved $1000 if we opted not to take the fridge.
I find a lot of them have over-engineered the drawbar with 150mm deep, too much extra weight. ( the salesman said people think it's stronger so we give it to them) thing.The Regal is only 100mm. deep.
It's more spartan under the bed area but we covered that in rubber non-slip anyway. Also no independent suspension, (I can fix a leaf spring ) but good design and with ultimate shockers. Can also access the fridge when on the road, but probably won't as we already have the Engel in the truck. Outside kitchen with pantry. Not too large aluminium box on drawbar would fit a generator or a fair amount of gear, very nice stone guard.
Picked that up and took away to Robe for Nov. weekend and loved it, towed beautifully.
It was good to be able to see the whole range at their showroom.
HAPPY CAMPERS :>)))
AnswerID: 211419

Follow Up By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 20:23

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 20:23
Well of course there is always the "Patrol CT" and the "YOTA CT" and the "ENGEL CT" oh! and don't forget the WAECO CT"

Seriously there is only one off road CT - The mighty TRACKABOUT SAFARI.

Don't listen to any one about the other brands....

Grrr!!!
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FollowupID: 471483

Follow Up By: Wes L - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:12

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:12
Ditto the Trackabout.

Just crashed through the central deserts and up into Cape York. Made it to the top and back to Melbourne and all it needed was a bit of touch up paint. I love it when you find something that's worth the money you spend.

Have just sold it because I want to tow a boat for my next trip and I only dropped $100 on what I paid for it.

Stacer boats, Yamaha motors, Trackabout CT's, Toyota 4WD's and Engel fridges, classic examples of you get what you pay for
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Follow Up By: Member - David A (QLD) - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:08

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 08:08
We tossed the trackabout around when we were buying, but came away with the lifestyle explorer+. Same sort of $, same build quality, just lesser known. On the day, it came down to the fact that the girl in the trackabout office said "go have a look out the back" and gave us a price list, while at Lifestyle the canvas guy showed us through all the tent and annexe stuff, and then the owner took us over the trailers themselves.
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Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 09:26

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 09:26
Thanks for the comments Harry.

I have CUB on my list, because of their tow ball weight, the upright fridge etc. Have seen some negative comments about canvas fit and dust leaks on some forum threads here, how did you find it on your trip away?

As I have a 4WD with fairly limited off-road ability (but got into Palm Valley and Sky Trek OK) I won't be going to the cape in the near future, so am looking for something that allows easy towing, ability to go on gravel roads/corrugations, into a few NP camping areas etc. and something that sets up quickly for the rest area stops on the way.

Thanks again for you comments,
Alastair
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FollowupID: 471567

Reply By: Harry - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:07

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:07
So, Crazy dogee, how many CT's have you owned, and yours is a soft floor anyway, so come on, compare apples with apples, the guy is asking for knowledge about hard floor CT's ya dork.
AnswerID: 211444

Follow Up By: Wes L - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:38

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:38
Don't worry Crazy Dogee. I reckon it's worth passing on info on the off chance people might be open minded.

Petty little buggers who resort to personal insults wouldn't understand that.
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FollowupID: 471519

Follow Up By: Member - Crazy Dog (QLD) - Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:42

Wednesday, Dec 20, 2006 at 22:42
Nah! - don't bother me.

I have been here a while and I input a bitta good stuff and a bitta fun... Sounds like the Christmas Grinch eh but...

Now maybe if he joined like me and didn't LURK that might be different...

And anyway's check the post from Wes L.....

Grrr!!!
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Reply By: Gronk - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 10:20

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 10:20
Most of the CT's your looking at are in the region of 800 - 950kg's ( unladen ) so the ball weight will ( or should ) be at least 80+ kg's, and this will go up when its laden.

If you don't want to run illegally and you don't want to upgrade your 4x4, I would suggest you look at some lighter soft floor campers ???

Have you looked at the KK Sports RV ? Stated ball weight is 60kg's ?? But whatever you buy, make sure you personally measure the ballweight ( never rely on the manufacturer to "assure" you of a weight )
AnswerID: 211501

Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 10:41

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 10:41
Yes, the KK dealer I visited the other thought the Sports RV might still be over the ball weight once laden. He suggested that long term it would be worthwhile my buying a set of scales (~$120) no matter what I end up with. That way I can also check as/after loading for each trip. He was very helpful, and stated he wouldn't sell me anything that exceeded vehicle spec's.

Don't want to run illegally as that can open a whole can of worms. Can't do much about the vehicle as committed for 3 more years lease. Dealer's following up with Suzuki to see what upgrade options might be available, also whether they'll up the ball weight limit with a weight distribution hitch (they did for the previous model).

I'll consider soft floor campers if I can't get a reasonable option from hard floors, but as we'll be limited to shortish trips for a few more years am keen to have something which can be set up quickly while in transit between longer stops.
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Follow Up By: Gronk - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 12:06

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 12:06
I have a 2005 KK Escape, which is above your towball limit, but undersrand the 2007 model is quoted at 65kg's. With thought as to what you need to carry and where in the camper you carry it ( example, a swingaway carrier on the tailgate will take 3 Jerries and add 60kg's to the REAR of the CT )

By adding say 60kg's to the front storage box on most hard floors won't add 60kg's to the drawbar weight ( maybe only 15 or 20kg's ) and the same for say the water tank; it might be ( the KK is ) above the axle, so won't affect the towball weight at all ??

Most bathroom scales will do the job of measuring the towball weight ( mine went to 140kg's !! ) so whatever you decide on, take a scale and some weights ( anything that weighs about as much as you think you will need to put in the CT that will affect its TOWBALL weight and get the manufacturer to load it for you ) and maybe you can come up with one that suits your needs ??
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FollowupID: 471594

Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 13:33

Thursday, Dec 21, 2006 at 13:33
Will definitely revisit the KK Escape/Classic and Sports RV. The KK dealer at Unanderra was really helpful, will go back there to look at options. The first visit was a bit rushed (late in the day).

Thanks for the feedback.
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FollowupID: 471606

Reply By: SWAMPY 2 - Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 07:31

Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 07:31
G'day,

I think the Cub range are definetly worth a look, as we have a 2004 Offroad escape which weighs in at 570 kg unlaiden. There is no internal fridge as we use one from vehicle but are very happy with the unit overall. We live in the Gascoyne region of WA where there is plenty of dust and some heavily corrugated roads inland and have had no problems what so ever with suspension or dust leakage.
Extremely quick and easy to erect & pack away, plenty of storage and nice and light. ( as long as you don't take half the house with you )
I personaly prefer the hard floor campers as opposed to soft floor, for keeping dirt, ants and any other nasties from getting inside.
Happy camping !
AnswerID: 211626

Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 08:45

Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 08:45
G'Day Swampy,

Thanks for the feedback, the CUB offroad is still well up on my list because of the towball weight limit with my vehicle, setup etc. Guess from what you've said that you have a Supamatic?

Did you go with optional battery pack and brakes etc?

Thanks again for taking the time to give me your opinion.

Have an enjoyable Festive Season (and to all the others who've shared their advice).

Cheers,
Alastair

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FollowupID: 471775

Reply By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:22

Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:22
Alastair, is your low ball weight a limitation of the vehicle, or the tow bar? If the tow capacity is 1850 KG, most vehicle manufacturers (though not all) would specify a 185 KG (10%) ball weight limit.

Some tow bars, even factory fitted ones are rated below the maximum capability of the vehicle.

If you haven't done so, it might be worth checking this out. There is a chance that for the cost of a new tow bar (without wiring, as current would be OK), you can solve the problem. But then again.......maybe not.
AnswerID: 211655

Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:38

Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:38
G'Day Norm,

Agree with you about the normal spec's for tow capacity vs ball weight. The limit was imposed by Suzuki. Hayman-Reese have a tow hitch for my model, was rated as 1850/185, but has since been changed to 1850/85 because they can't exceed manufacturer's spec (H-R technical advised this when I rang them). My "genuine" tow hitch is, I suspect, the same H-R (OEM version).

Previous Grand Vitara had 90 Kg limit, but 140Kg with a w.d.h. Dealer I bought the vehicle through is asking this same question of the manufacture, though that would mean I couldn't use a Treg coupling, only standard 50mm ball coupling.

Annoying thing is the ONLY spec I didn't have prior to buying the vehicle was the ball weight limit, only became known when delivered with a paper "85kg max" sticker on the door frame and hitch bar. Even now all available manufacturer info only shows the 1850Kg max towing capacity (braked), no ball weight, (except in the owner manual). Have learned a valuable lesson the hard way, trouble is I'm committed to the vehicle for another 3 years.

Thanks for your advice and have an enjoyable festive season.

Regards,
Alastair
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FollowupID: 471813

Follow Up By: Member - Norm C (QLD) - Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:46

Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:46
Alastair, there was discussion on this forum a few months ago about WDH with Tregg and similar hitches. I seem to remembeer that the conclusion was that you can use them. Of course, you would have to disconnect if doing serious off roading as it would prevent proper functioning of the Tregg.

No personal knowledge of this. Just what I think I read. Try a search it you like.
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FollowupID: 471814

Follow Up By: ADP2006 - Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:53

Friday, Dec 22, 2006 at 11:53
Thanks Norm,

Will have a troll around the forum archives. Guess I'd just made that assumption, although at this stage it's a bit hypothetical if the ball weight can't be increased even with a WDH.

Thanks again for your help.

Alastair
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FollowupID: 471815

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